Advice on selecting CPU and memory for M3N78-VM

[365nice]

Hi - its been a long time since I looked at motherboards and cpu's for an htpc (my MythTV installation on an old ASUS pundit just kept working for the last 4 years).

I'm tempted by HD tv and buildig a better htpc box and I recall the last time around that I need to get a good balance between performance and heat (my last build was ok, but you could hear a fan kick on when it was doing heavier work). Also reading on here - it seems like memory speed is something to consider as well?

I'm looking at the Asus M3N78-VM motherboard (I saw some writeups on using it for mythtv - its a bit old but looks good for job).

But what CPU to put in it? I'm confused about all the different cpu's available. The article I read suggested an AMD Athlon 64 5200+ - however I'm ordering from ebuyer and they don't have one of those - and looking at their cpu's I see a lot of options. For example which of the following might be a good choice (the 64x 6000 looks good value but will it be too hot?)

AMD Athlon X2 5000+ 2.2GHz Socket AM2 1MB L2 Cache
£47.99

AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ (3GHz) Socket AM2 L2 2MB (2 x 1MB) Cache
£49.64inc vat

AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ 2.9GHz Socket AM2 512KBx2 L2 Cache
£50 inc vat

Or should I look at Phenom processors (they cost more - are they better?)

Also should I be worried about memory speed - I was thinking of 4gb of:

Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Kit CL5 1.8v
£55.99

but then this isn't that much more:
Corsair 4Gb (2x2GB) DDR2 1066MHz/PC2-8500 XMS2 Memory CL5 (5-6-6-1 2.1V
£69.99

Any tips/help greatly appreciated.

Tim

[fromans4]

If you were not apposed to going with an Intel processor you might want to consider something like this -

Newegg.com - DFI LP JR GF9400-T2RS LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 9400 HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Intel Motherboards

Would give you a good bump in GPU power. You can get away with 2GB of RAM without loosing any performance or capabilities. There used to be a Gigabyte motherboard offered with about the same spec's but that one seems to have been discontinued.

Brent

[artebonz]

I went w/the Phenom II x2 550. IIRC, one of the reasons was they ran cooler than say the comparable Athlon 64 x2 (3 Ghz), stock cooler was a bit noisy though... I thought the few bucks more was worth the temp differences.

[Daemons.ca]

Originally Posted by 365nice

I'm looking at the Asus M3N78-VM motherboard (I saw some writeups on using it for mythtv - its a bit old but looks good for job).

Thats amusing. I just came to this forum for suggestions on RAM. I too am building an HTPC with this board. It's a nicely designed MB for MythTV I find.

But what CPU to put in it? I'm confused about all the different cpu's available. The article I read suggested an AMD Athlon 64 5200+ - however I'm ordering from ebuyer and they don't have one of those - and looking at their cpu's I see a lot of options. For example which of the following might be a good choice (the 64x 6000 looks good value but will it be too hot?)

Let me fill in some info I found that you might be missing.
To reduce fan noise, try to use a CPU with 45w or 65w TDP.
Also, to use the memory at 1066Mhz, you need to use an AM2+ CPU or your max will be 800Mhz (with AM2).

The new generation of AMD processors (Athlon II series) are much more efficient, heat less with better performance. They are all AM3 Socket CPUs, but this motherboard supports them minus the DDR3 RAM access and lower Hyper-Transport speed. One important note, check Asus's website for CPU support and make sure the MB you buy has the Rev. needed along with the Bios rev. needed to detect the CPU.

I decided on an Athlon II X2 250 (3.0Ghz) which is an AM3 processor. It's dual core, 64bit, has 2 x 1Mb L2 cache (vs 512 on older X2s), has Hyper-Transport but will be lower speed on this board not being an actual AM3/DDR3 MB.
It's 65w TDP, and I plan to underclock it to 2.8Ghz to further reduce heat and fan noise. I'll see how it is at 3Ghz first but since it's only $10 more at my local PC store, I opted for the 3G which will have a larger heatsink.
I found mine listed for 80$ CND at my local PC store.

Also should I be worried about memory speed - I was thinking of 4gb of:

Corsair 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 XMS2 Memory Kit CL5 1.8v
£55.99

but then this isn't that much more:
Corsair 4Gb (2x2GB) DDR2 1066MHz/PC2-8500 XMS2 Memory CL5 (5-6-6-1 2.1V
£69.99

As I wrote above, for 1066MHz, you need a AM2+ (or AM3) CPU.
Have a look at Asus's page for the M3N78-VM. Under specifications you will see the note on 1066 mem.
Also check the CPU Support List tab to check which MB version you might need and which bios is needed to detect the CPU.

I too am wondering how much Ram to get. I thought 4Gb would be better, but this is Linux (not Vista!) so maybe I don't need that much memory. Since the PC will only be used for MythTV, 4Gb might be overkill.

If you're not in a rush... I'm buying my components next week and will start building my HTPC in 2-3 weeks time.
I can report back with my findings in this thread.

Marc

[365nice]

Originally Posted by Daemons.ca

I too am wondering how much Ram to get. I thought 4Gb would be better, but this is Linux (not Vista!) so maybe I don't need that much memory. Since the PC will only be used for MythTV, 4Gb might be overkill.
Marc

Hi Marc - the example I used was: Asa Winstanley How I built my own DVR using MythTV and Linux

I did ask him how he still felt on the spec, and he did mention that if you want multiple users on the box (or are doing other things - like media streaming) - then he felt that 2gb wasn't enough.

My current box has 2GB and it seems fine - but then I was thinking that given the boxes tend to last 4yrs and its negligble for the extra ram then why not (however I do wonder how much heat it adds to the equation).

Funny you mention that CPU - since posting and looking over things I spotted the AMD Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz Socket AM3 2MB (I guess one down from what you were considering). Now you mention it, this looks like a good option too.

So on the memory front, would this support the 1066mzh ram - and I guess the other question is, do we even need it, or is 800 fine? (Actually have read that 1066 generates more heat, so maybe 800 is a better bet, particularly as with that motherboard the idea is to use the nvidea gpu for playback - and while transcoding is hard work, i think the spec we're talking about is adequate?)

Tim

[Daemons.ca]

Originally Posted by 365nice

Hi Marc - the example I used was: Asa Winstanley How I built my own DVR using MythTV and Linux

I did ask him how he still felt on the spec, and he did mention that if you want multiple users on the box (or are doing other things - like media streaming) - then he felt that 2gb wasn't enough.

I don't plan on doing much with this box other than Frontend/backend HD/SD. At most it would act as a file server and I know from experience on Linux that it uses very little memory.

My current box has 2GB and it seems fine - but then I was thinking that given the boxes tend to last 4yrs and its negligble for the extra ram then why not (however I do wonder how much heat it adds to the equation).

Almost nothing. It's more the number of modules, not so much the size.

Funny you mention that CPU - since posting and looking over things I spotted the AMD Athlon X2 240 2.8GHz Socket AM3 2MB (I guess one down from what you were considering). Now you mention it, this looks like a good option too.

The 240 was also my original choice. I went with the 250 on the advice of my local PC store. He said the 240, 245 and 250 are really the same processor, just clocked differently and with different heatsinks. Since in my case it was only $10 more, I'm opting for the larger heatsink and I can always underclock it to 2.8GHz if I find it too hot at 3.0GHz.
All of them are 65W TDP, so I think they're a better option than the old 64 X2s.

So on the memory front, would this support the 1066mzh ram - and I guess the other question is, do we even need it, or is 800 fine?

It supports 1066Mhz DDR2. Any AM2+ or AM3 socketed CPU supports 1066MHz DDR2 but the nVidia chipset has a weird quirk: You can only use 2 modules at 1066Mhz, not all 4. It's some limitation of the chipset apparently, not specific to this MB. So to get 1066Mhz you need a 1066 dual-channel kit
in the yellow slots. From what I understand, if you add memory in the other two slots then all the memory will run at 800Mhz only. Something to consider.

Also, any 1066MHz ram you put in will be detected as 800Mhz. You need to set the timing, freq. and voltage in the BIOS to run it at it's 1066 speed.
It takes a bit of experimenting depending on which brand you get. Ram sold as 5-5-5-5-18 might not run at 1066, without changing the timings to say 7-7-7-7-24 for example. Thats something you need to ask the RAM manufacturer on which timing is needed for this chipset/MB.
Running 800Mhz DDR2 just works.
Just like you, I don't know enough on what MythTV really requires to know if 1066 is really better or if 800Mhz would be just fine.
Same goes for the size. I think 1.75Gb should be enough (256Mb used by the onboard Video card, if you're wondering), but if having more Ram helps with displaying HD or for some other process, then maybe I'll go for 4Gb. It's about double the price, so if I don't need it, I'd rather save the money.

Important note on the CPUs:
All the Athlon II Xs need a board revision of 1.02G and for the 240-250 X2s a BIOS rev. of 1102 or higher. I called ASUS support and asked them, and this is the info they gave me: If the BIOS is not up to at least that rev. the CPU wont be detected (i.e. wont POST) which means you can't flash the BIOS using that CPU. I'm having the BIOS flashed where I'm buying the MB, but if you buy it online, you might have to send the board to ASUS to have it flashed (which they will do for you) if it's not up to date. Or if the BIOS is removable, you can just send them the BIOS chip. I don't believe it is, but thats what the tech suggested.
Of course if you have another AM2 CPU around (like an old Athlon64) then you can use it to flash the BIOS and then swap the CPUs. It's a pain, I know. Most important though is getting the right board revision, otherwise it wont work at all (also from Asus tech support) so ask before you buy.

Marc

[Daemons.ca]

The board & CPU just came into the store. Gonna pick it up tomorrow or Friday. I ordered the powersupply & HVR-1600 yesterday, so it's on it's way.
No memory yet. I wanted 2x1Gb DDR2-1066 but the brand I wanted was out of stock! Damn newegg!
I'll just use some DDR2-667 I have around until I can get new ram. I can always go with 800Mhz, but for the slight price diff, I'll try 1066.

I'm a little surprised on the more heat from 1066 as you say, because really it shouldn't. I guess it all depends on which memory chip they use on the module. I think if the memory is overclocked though, thats where the more heat would come in. Some of the cheaper ones might actually be 800 OCed to 1066.

I'll report back when I get stuff together. Right now I have to pick an HD antenna design to build. Probably a gray-hoverman one.

Marc

[Daemons.ca]

Just a quick update. I finally received the HVR-1600 from newegg yesterday. Still waiting on the B/O memory from them.

I got the system built (using 667Mhz memory) and installed Mythbuntu 9.10 beta since I figured I might as well get Myth 0.22 right away.
So far so good, but I have a whole lot of reading to do and many configs to do still.

I can say one thing about the setup... it's Cool n' Quiet! That Athlon II X2 250 runs cool (even at 3.0Ghz) and the powersupply outputs cool air! I've never seen that before.
The only noise really is from the actuator for the head of the harddrive.
I'm using a WD 1TB Green drive.

Will be back with results once I get VDPAU/HDMI and the HVR card working.

Marc

[scottbla]

I'm basically putting the same system together (since my previous myth SVN on a ubuntu 7.04 or 7.10 system died when I tried to install a new digital tuner card to deal with Comcast migration)...

Asus M3N78-EM
AMD X2 250 (3GHz)
4GB of 1066 RAM
Seagate Barracuda SATA 750GB & 1.5TB drives
old 400GB IDE drive & DVD drive.
Mythbuntu 9.10
pcHDTV 3000 card
Hauppauge Wintv-hvr-2250 on order

I decided to go with the 4GB instead of 2GB since it didn't cost that much more...it doesn't seem to be going to waste. I need to figure out what all is consuming the RAM, but it does seem to all be used. I'm also planning on running boxee on there at some point.

Initially I wasn't getting sound over my HDMI, but after web searching and random changes, it started working...I'm not sure what I changed that fixed it, but I was messing with PulseAudio pkg installs, asound.conf tweaks, messing with a volume control GUI and somehow it started working.

The HDMI video output to my TV (Samsung LN46A850) seems to be putting out a larger image than the screen size, so I've had to tweak MythTV screen size and need to go figure out how to get the X display size set with the right modeline or something. And I don't think that all of my digital channel information is properly connected with the SchedulesDirect program listing info yet.

Always a "work in progress"...

[Daemons.ca]

Originally Posted by Daemons.ca

I got the system built (using 667Mhz memory) and installed Mythbuntu 9.10 beta since I figured I might as well get Myth 0.22 right away.
So far so good, but I have a whole lot of reading to do and many configs to do still.

Yeah well, I'm wiping everything and starting over with 9.04 instead. 9.10 beta is way too buggy.
I had issues with the automated login that just stopped working, and I couldn't login into an xfce session anymore.
The use of Grub2 makes adding to the kernel line more complicated (no more menu.lst in Grub2).
I couldn't get anything to tune, analog or digital.
The channel scan only work for digital (and found nothing). The analog scan just stays at ch2 and doesn't move.
And the remote is just as hopeless. So... I tried, now I give up! Lol

Originally Posted by scottbla

Initially I wasn't getting sound over my HDMI, but after web searching and random changes, it started working...I'm not sure what I changed that fixed it, but I was messing with PulseAudio pkg installs, asound.conf tweaks, messing with a volume control GUI and somehow it started working.

Common problem is the spdif is muted. That and sometimes pulseaudio is not setup right, preventing the spdif output.

The HDMI video output to my TV (Samsung LN46A850) seems to be putting out a larger image than the screen size, so I've had to tweak MythTV screen size and need to go figure out how to get the X display size set with the right modeline or something.

Thats specific to your TV. Check the modlines item at the mythtv wiki. There's good info there.
At least you got somewhere with 9.10 beta. I got nothing with my card.

Always a "work in progress"...

Indeed it is. Keep at it.


Marc